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elisi's humble abode - Icon meme.
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Icon meme.
red_satin_doll gave me the following icons to talk about...

1)
longlongtime by sdwolfpup

One of my very, very first icons. The text 'they felt like they'd lived a long, long time' is adapted from the book Wesley reads to Fred in AHiTW, the scene cutting to Spike and Angel:

She was such a little girl that one did not expect to see such a look on her small face. It would have been an old look for a child of twelve, and Sara Crewe was only seven. The fact was, however, that she was always dreaming and thinking odd things and could not herself remember any time when she had not been thinking things about grown-up people and the world they belonged to. She felt as if she had lived a long, long time.

So it's an icon I use when I want to focus on the age and history of Spike & Angel - or when I need a beautiful icon of a tree. I love how small they are in relation to it, and how you need to know the show in order to understand what the image is about.



2)
It's a good fandom by killmebecomemememe

Pretty much what it says on the tin. One of those 'I like my show' statements, which beautifully illustrates that just because it deals with a lot of problematic issues doesn't mean that it doesn't know right from wrong. Buffy might not be perfect, but neither is real life...



3)
Smile Fan by buttersideup

Now this one is one I picked up specifically because back in the day there were a lot of people who were angry about the very end of the show. Why did the Scoobies banter when so many had died? Why did Buffy smile when she'd just lost Spike? However, I always loved the smile, loved the fact that Buffy was free, that Spike's final gift to her was herself and her future, unfettered by destiny. She could live, again. (Also see Forget-me-not by the_royal_anna)



4)
Everything is connected by me

This one's... complicated. It's the cover of a Doctor Who tie-in novel. But not in the conventional sense - it's a book that appears in the show (written by one of the characters), but it is now a real book that you can buy and read (I'm currently reading it as a bedtime story to my two younger daughters, as it's a children's book). The book itself deals with a lot of the imagery and symbolism in the show (Moffat Who is all mirrors, dear god), but even more than that, the new paperback version has a new introduction, which ties in directly with one of the current (major) plot-lines. So - everything is connected. Kate Webster is a fictional character (in a book), created by another fictional character (on a TV show), and her adventures are referenced on the TV show... Stories within stories within stories. It's a maze and I love it.



5)
Don't Mess with River Song by meathiel

My 'corresponding' icon on DreamWidth is this one, which I sort of like better, but they both do the same thing of neatly pointing out River's total and utter bad-assery. The icon is from S5, so at the time I didn't even know *why* she was so amazing - she just was. Mostly people should heed the warning on the icon, as no one lasts long if they come up against River. (River > known universe + all the rest)



6)
Time(Lords) can be rewritten by kathyh

This one is one I asked Kathy to make for me. It draws on the line 'Time can be rewritten' (Doctor Who is a show about time travel, and they explore all the possibilities in great detail), but applies it to the Doctor himself, as a lot of people had trouble adjusting to the differences between Ten and Eleven. So it's an icon I use when I need to highlight the differences between them, and how things have changed. And how that's OK. (The image comes from an official poster. I especially like Ten's seriousness, and Eleven's smile.)



7)
S7 love by cleapet (not sharable)

As one of the people to set up lateseasonlove (a shelter for those who liked the later seasons of Buffy and wanted a safe place), it's no surprise that I am fond of S7. Not that I am not enamoured of the dysfunctional nature of S6, but S6 is only half the story - it needs the relative calm of S7 to balance it. S6 breaks everything, and S7 puts in back together. Where Spike and Buffy burned and blazed in S6, in S7 they talk, they connect, they acknowledge that their bonds run far deeper than Buffy has been willing to admit until then - and she finally gives rather than takes. No love (not until the end) but something more important at that time: Trust, respect, belief. So yes, S7 has my heart, and I asked to be able to use this icon (which was made specifically for someone else), and was granted permission.

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Comments
kikimay From: kikimay Date: October 29th, 2013 01:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
Beautiful icons! I also share the love for Season 7 - yes, it's not perfect but I adore the way it makes me feel when I watch it - for Eleven and Amy's book is so fantastic! My babiiieees.

Edit: also happy belated birthday! I posted it just yesterday. Sorry, I was really busy this week and CONVERSE! (I intend to choose your other icons)

Edited at 2013-10-29 01:43 pm (UTC)
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 03:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Beautiful icons! I also share the love for Season 7 - yes, it's not perfect but I adore the way it makes me feel when I watch it
*nods* I really helps (personally) that I wasn't in fandom when it aired. I could watch in peace & just enjoy. :)

for Eleven and Amy's book is so fantastic! My babiiieees.
Have you read Summer Falls?

Edit: also happy belated birthday! I posted it just yesterday. Sorry, I was really busy this week
Thank you (again) and no worries (again). That's life. :)

CONVERSE! (I intend to choose your other icons)
You mean, you want to choose some of mine, rather than me choose some of yours?
kikimay From: kikimay Date: October 29th, 2013 06:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
Have you read Summer Falls?

No I didn't and honestly I don't know where find it in my country >*<

You mean, you want to choose some of mine, rather than me choose some of yours?


Yes! Yours are much more and much interesting!
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 06:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
No I didn't and honestly I don't know where find it in my country >*<
It's available on Kindle from Amazon. If you have a Kindle...

Yes! Yours are much more and much interesting!
Sure, fire away! (I never shut up anyway. *g*)
penny_lane_42 From: penny_lane_42 Date: October 29th, 2013 02:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
What a happy post!
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 03:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Iconsssssss. They make me happy simply by existing.
flowsoffire From: flowsoffire Date: October 29th, 2013 02:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
Eeeee. All the love for icons! (These days I feel that everywhere I turn, there is something to remind me that icons are awesome… XD)
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 03:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Icons are probably the main reason I still give LJ all my money... Way back when, someone bought me a pain account as a gift and I could never go back to the basic number of icons after having 50+. (It's nearly 300 now. What would I DO without them?)
flowsoffire From: flowsoffire Date: October 29th, 2013 03:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, I can imagine ;) For now I'm fine with 15 and switching often, but having SO MANY… *marvels*
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 03:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
I can't imagine having only 15. I wouldn't be able to cope... (The 'longlongtime' one, for example, I've had since 2004. I don't use it often, but I need to know I have it.)
a_phoenixdragon From: a_phoenixdragon Date: October 29th, 2013 04:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
These are all wonderful icons - and such awesome stories and feelings behind them!!

*HUGS*
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 04:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thank you! :)

(I'll never get tired of this one...)
a_phoenixdragon From: a_phoenixdragon Date: October 29th, 2013 05:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think anyone could ever get tired of it...

*Stares and daydreams*
kaffyr From: kaffyr Date: October 29th, 2013 10:29 pm (UTC) (Link)
I was amused by what you said about Ten and Eleven in #6; every time I've seen that image, I've been struck by what I thought was a tremendously arch look from Ten, and a tremendously dangerous smile from Eleven; to me, Eleven looks far darker and more dangerous in this picture than his predecessing self. (Yes, I know. It's not really a word. *Hangs head*)
elisi From: elisi Date: October 29th, 2013 10:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh I can definitely see what you mean, but it's partly just because it's so small. This is the original. So I mostly think of it as Ten-taking-himself-too-seriously and Eleven-having-fun, but overall? Eleven is definitely the more dangerous. Like Promethia said - the danger with Ten was that he'd lose it. The danger with Eleven is that he won't.
kaffyr From: kaffyr Date: October 29th, 2013 11:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Heh ... I looked at the full sized picture and still got the "superficial vs. dangerous" vibe from the image. Must just be me.

the danger with Ten was that he'd lose it.

Ah, you see, to me it always seemed as if he was losing it, generally to no great effect. The only times I ever thought of him as dangerous were when he was very quiet. When he got noisy, I generally was just embarrassed for him.

Of course, "losing it" can mean far more than being noisy, I readily admit.
elisi From: elisi Date: October 30th, 2013 08:44 am (UTC) (Link)
Ah, you see, to me it always seemed as if he was losing it, generally to no great effect. The only times I ever thought of him as dangerous were when he was very quiet. When he got noisy, I generally was just embarrassed for him.
I was thinking specifically of Waters of Mars, and deciding that he's actually [a] god. Ten has an unhinged quality to him. See this post, but in short: His intentions are good but it hardly matters, because at the edge of his tolerance Ten would probably burn the world to reach them. He has all the power of utter desperation at his fingertips, and it's never very far away.

(This is why he had to die.)

I think we mean the same, really, we just use different words.)

mengu From: mengu Date: October 30th, 2013 08:36 am (UTC) (Link)
I find it surprising that you count lesbians, violence and lying as problematic issues.
elisi From: elisi Date: October 30th, 2013 08:40 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, it was all a long time ago now. And I didn't make the icon...
mengu From: mengu Date: October 30th, 2013 08:58 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah. That was more my point, I think, didn't quite make it out, that if someone made it now they'd be more likely to put lesbians on the other side of the list. And having to defend the presence of violence in a show... it was all a long time ago, I guess.
elisi From: elisi Date: October 30th, 2013 09:07 am (UTC) (Link)
I feel old now...
red_satin_doll From: red_satin_doll Date: October 30th, 2013 04:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
It would have been an old look for a child of twelve, and Sara Crewe was only seven. The fact was, however, that she was always dreaming and thinking odd things and could not herself remember any time when she had not been thinking things about grown-up people and the world they belonged to. She felt as if she had lived a long, long time.

1) It's from the novel "A Little Princess" (1905) by Frances Hodgson Burnett, author of the much more famous "A Secret Garden" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Hodgson_Burnett
I received a copy when I was 7 or 8 years old and Sara Crewe was my favorite fictional character for YEARS. I kept my original copy until just a couple of years ago. I adored that book. The class and race issues are of course wonky now to our modern sensibilities but Sara is such a singular character, and some of the scenes so burned in my memory I can still recall them to mind. I haven't done so in some years - reading that quote brings it all back. I think I identified with her because she felt like an adult at a young age and was very imaginative and "in her own headspace" a bit, as was I. Her imagination helped her survive awful experiences; I knew what that was like.

Ignore the movie versions, which are rubbish and only slightly connected to the book.

2) Buffy might not be perfect, but neither is real life...

EXACTLY. (See my previous comment in this thread.)

3) I almost nabbed the Smile fan icon but only have space for 15; you summed up my feelings about that moment. The SG banter was a little uncomfortable when I watched last year; but the accusations I've read (and heard even within the last year) that Buffy was also cracking jokes shocked me. There are people who honestly believe that; when in fact she's the only one who remains silent and withdrawn; the last four words she says on the show are "I love you" / "Spike". The ending felt unsatisfying in some ways but that image for me is PERFECT: two warriors who honor one another with their gifts: She brings him Death - an honorable one, as a Champion - and the Vampire who once represented Death and the Dark gives her a new life in the open sunlight. So many FEELINGS I don't know where to begin.

4) I actually picked that one because it looked like an illustration from a Victorian children's book - I should have known better? *lol*

5) I like that one better than the DW one because I can see her face clearly. You told me that River was meta within meta; is this one of the scenes you're thinking of? The Dalek who is programmed to believe that Companions do not commit violence; and the woman who destroys 40 years of (tv show) tradition with a single shot? and, just, the general badassery.

6) EDITED: I thought eilowyn provided the vid for the S5 trailer on my journal when it was you. I am so off my game! (Oh wait, I never was "on" to start with.)

7) And again you've summed up my shippy feelings about S6 and S7, and why they balance one another and work as a whole, as the_royal_anna observed 10 years ago.

she finally gives rather than takes

True, but I'd say it goes both ways: he begins to understand real love - made up of trust and respect as you say. Not passion, lust, romantic love, etc. Together they learn to pay attention to what the other person needs, not what they want for themselves; to see one another clearly rather than as projections of their own inner turmoil. But, you know all that already, of course.

And I love that cleapet used the scene from NLM, in a season that was full of "moments" : BY, Showtime, Chosen.

Edited at 2013-10-30 05:12 pm (UTC)
elisi From: elisi Date: October 30th, 2013 10:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's from the novel "A Little Princess"
That's it! And thanks for the background - it's always fascinating to see what people see in the show, how it's personal to them...

EXACTLY. (See my previous comment in this thread.)
I like my heroes (/shows) flawed, oh yes.

I almost nabbed the Smile fan icon but only have space for 15; you summed up my feelings about that moment.
You're welcome to take it, if you ever get more spaces! And yes, she is so distant from the others, so clearly still in her own world. She deserves that smile. *firm nod*

I actually picked that one because it looked like an illustration from a Victorian children's book - I should have known better? *lol*
Well it's supposed to date from 1954, so you were sort of right? (Timey-wimey storytelling!)

You told me that River was meta within meta; is this one of the scenes you're thinking of?
No. And if you look at Ace - to pick the most obvious example - then the Doctor was always more than happy to use her (and her explosives) for blowing stuff up... There's a lot more happening here. And the meta runs much, much deeper.

6) EDITED: I thought eilowyn provided the vid for the S5 trailer on my journal when it was you. I am so off my game! (Oh wait, I never was "on" to start with.)
LOL. No worries. I know what it's like to try to keep track of everyone and everything!

Together they learn to pay attention to what the other person needs, not what they want for themselves; to see one another clearly rather than as projections of their own inner turmoil.
'I think what I love most about Season 7 is that over the course of it, Buffy and Spike become stronger and more dependent.' the_royal_anna :)

And I love that cleapet used the scene from NLM, in a season that was full of "moments" : BY, Showtime, Chosen.
That moment is the turning point, though. That single 'I believe in you' - it changes everything. This was the first icon I ever uploaded (as far as I remember), and I've kept it forever more. Because it's the heart of everything.
red_satin_doll From: red_satin_doll Date: October 31st, 2013 04:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
I almost picked that "Believe in you" icon btw, but it really needs no explanation. to me, at least. It gives me FEELINGS....

I like my heroes (/shows) flawed, oh yes.

Which is why Batman or Spiderman are a hell of a lot more interesting than Superman. There's no point if there's no arc, no evolution, no depth. Heros arren't "role models" IMO if they represent the unreachable or "unattainable" (Buffy: "Fine, I'm attainable, I'm an attain-a-thon". *lol*) Or if there's "no there there"

she is so distant from the others, so clearly still in her own world. She deserves that smile. *firm nod*

HELL YES.

Well it's supposed to date from 1954

It doesn't seem right for the period based on my memory of children's books from that period - but then again the garth Williams did the illustrations for Little House on the Prairie book in the '50's as I recall but they're timeless, not "representative of their period".

'I think what I love most about Season 7 is that over the course of it, Buffy and Spike become stronger and more dependent.' the_royal_anna :)

And then they see each other clearly, they bless each other and LET EACH OTHER GO. In love. And that just sends me over the moon. (I know a lot of fans see that as tragic; but to me it's just "so much bigger than a ring on the finger" - ever_neutral's quote I think?

Anything Anna writes is gold even when I don't agree 100%; on the subject she's never been bettered. They're a team again on many levels, even while there are sticky subjects they don't know how to handle - and how could they possibly? I think S7 reminds me in some ways of the other periods I loved them best - late S5 and early S6, when there was a real friendship forming. (I love their interaction in HB for the same reason and really hoped things would continue that way. S7 is the delayed continuation even as they are bound to each other by a world of shared pain.)

That moment is the turning point, though. That single 'I believe in you' - it changes everything.

YES. There are actually several "turning points" in the series and in their arc - they're relationship is built on that, on constant change, NOT stasis. Hard constant work. Again, Anna - "the relationship works because it had to be worked at." that's the core of any RL relationship. And each moment builds upon what's come before, which comes together beautifully in S7 in an organic progression.

I think that moment is the subtext of Spike's "She surpassed you" in Touched. To me it's not really about "the student surpasses the teacher", not Watcher/Slayer, but on a really human level: Buffy has moved beyond the black/white paradigm, has continued to open her heart, to "stick to it" and "get it done" even when it's difficult, even after she's met her own darkness face-to-face; Giles never quite gets there. Trying to kill Spike is the continued denial of his own darkness. That's what makes Buffy and Spike the heros in ways Giles isn't quite, and in a way Riley can't even imagine.

elisi From: elisi Date: October 31st, 2013 09:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
I almost picked that "Believe in you" icon btw, but it really needs no explanation. to me, at least. It gives me FEELINGS....
Oh yes.

Which is why Batman or Spiderman are a hell of a lot more interesting than Superman. There's no point if there's no arc, no evolution, no depth. Heros arren't "role models" IMO if they represent the unreachable or "unattainable" (Buffy: "Fine, I'm attainable, I'm an attain-a-thon". *lol*) Or if there's "no there there"
Perfect Buffy quote! And I'm Tony Stark allllll the way! (Watched Iron Man 3 the other day. <3)

It doesn't seem right for the period based on my memory of children's books from that period - but then again the garth Williams did the illustrations for Little House on the Prairie book in the '50's as I recall but they're timeless, not "representative of their period".
They were from the 50's? I never knew that. Anyway, I think they were basically going for 'oldish children's book'.

And then they see each other clearly, they bless each other and LET EACH OTHER GO. In love. And that just sends me over the moon. (I know a lot of fans see that as tragic; but to me it's just "so much bigger than a ring on the finger" - ever_neutral's quote I think?
Their love is impossible anyway (mortal/immortal = guaranteed heartbreak), so they went out on a high.

Anything Anna writes is gold even when I don't agree 100%; on the subject she's never been bettered.
She is also adorable in person! I have only ever met two LJ people in real life, but she is one of them, and I am so lucky! /random (it's late, I'm tired)

YES. There are actually several "turning points" in the series and in their arc - they're relationship is built on that, on constant change, NOT stasis. Hard constant work.
This. I've said this often, but my main criteria for an OTP is that they are bound together by more than just 'love'. Not that love isn't a wonderful thing, but if there is nothing else keeping them together, then they're not very interesting...

Buffy has moved beyond the black/white paradigm, has continued to open her heart, to "stick to it" and "get it done" even when it's difficult, even after she's met her own darkness face-to-face
Absolutely. And this is something Buffy does right from the start - she can see beyond the rules and regulations, can think outside the parameters. Which is why she wins in Chosen.
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my thoughts echoed


About The Wedding of River Song:
"Eleven, in the very episode that's about killing off the Lonely God once and for all, meets River when she is Waters of Mars Ten. He's just decided to lay this part of himself to rest, and there's the Timelord Victorious standing right in front of him--and he doesn't run away, or shove her in a cupboard, or try to kill her, or "give her a choice" to make himself feel better about killing her... he marries her. He loves her and accepts her and that's how he gets her to stop."
10littlebullets

"If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes Buffy loved Spike."
(Jane Espenson?)

The Doctor (to River): "Please. Help me."

About Chosen:
"Even if we hadn’t seen Buffy’s face shining in the most perfect, absolute expression of love in that final scene – didn’t everything that Buffy and Spike were to each other already tell us very, very clearly that they loved each other? And if you don’t see that – didn’t already see that, long before this scene – then, goodness, we’re not watching the same show."
the_royal_anna

Mr Lux: "And who is the Doctor?"
River: "The only story you'll ever tell - if you survive him."
'Forest of the Dead'

“The Angel and Spike relationship has this mythic feel... David and James know how to play everything like they hate each other, but there is this weird underlying love, and I can't write that... I just love Spike so much and think he is the best character ever. He is just a writer's dream. Spike is the outsider there to deconstruct all the heroes because he doesn't play along, yet he is one, but he would never admit it. I think we are proud he became part of the AtS universe without acting like he was part of it.”
Drew Goddard

"Season six [of Buffy] remains the highlight. You won't find a more skilled extended exploration of existential turmoil on the big or small screen. And I'm not talking "woe is me" teenage angst, but a genuine search for what it means to be human. It's Bergman for the masses."
Tim Porter, Paste Magazine

Ianto: "I – know you get lonely."
Jack: "Going home wouldn't fix that. Being here, I've seen things I never dreamt I'd see. Loved people I never would have known if I'd just stayed where I was... And I wouldn't change that for the world."
'To The Last Man'

The Seventh Doctor: "I can hear the sound of empires toppling."
'The Happiness Patrol'

Messenger: "There is a woman who wants to meet you."
Doctor: That's nice, but I'm married."
The prequel to 'Asylum of the Daleks'